How Can a Founder Run a Free DIY Patent Search?

[0:00] hello and welcome to Startup Chuck this

[0:02] is episode three and it's all about

[0:04] patents so i' mentioned in previous

[0:07] episodes that you would have to do a

[0:09] patent search in order to determine

[0:11] whether or not you had freedom to

[0:12] operate for certain things that you

[0:15] wanted to create well or

[0:19] sell I'm not a lawyer I'm not a patent

[0:22] attorney I'm not an accountant so take

[0:26] anything that I state with a grain of

[0:28] salt and reach out to to a real patent

[0:30] attorney if you have any actual concerns

[0:33] but with that in mind I've done a lot of

[0:35] patent searches and it is not something

[0:37] that you have to spend $4,000 on you can

[0:40] do it 100%

[0:42] yourself and you do not have to pay a

[0:45] patent search person which in a lot of

[0:47] cases let's say you do a patent search

[0:50] with a firm they don't discover anything

[0:52] that's notable and later on you get sued

[0:58] because another company who had

[1:01] something that was patented didn't get

[1:03] found by the patent search company you

[1:05] infringed on their patent typically that

[1:08] patent search company is only liable for

[1:11] their fee and not necessarily will have

[1:13] legal recourse plus you're a startup are

[1:17] you going to have enough money in order

[1:19] to actually pursue suing them probably

[1:23] not so it's kind of the end of your

[1:25] company or you have to work at a

[1:26] licensing deal at that point and I'll go

[1:29] into a little bit more about

[1:31] how just cuz you find a patent out there

[1:34] doesn't mean you can't make the product

[1:35] you want you can in fact typically

[1:38] easily license something from somebody

[1:40] because uh they want to make money they

[1:43] want more people to adopt their

[1:44] technology and usually they are willing

[1:47] to work with people who are willing to

[1:49] give them money right so now let's talk

[1:53] about our our sponsor here for this

[1:56] episode once again Chuck bucket is our

[1:59] sponsor

[2:00] they sell a hitch Mount ski rack and

[2:03] bike rack and you can uh easily swap out

[2:08] the bike rack and put the ski rack on

[2:10] depending on the

[2:11] season so we want to thank them for

[2:17] sponsoring our video here um and we will

[2:21] I guess start getting into patent

[2:23] searching so uh let's have some more

[2:27] examples so we're going to have two

[2:29] examples for this episode one is going

[2:31] to be of course the banana

[2:34] bopper uh kitchen gadget product because

[2:36] this is going to be our design patent

[2:38] example and then we have another product

[2:42] which

[2:45] is my bike roller trainer I sold for a

[2:48] few years Crown roller so Crown roller

[2:52] is a bike roller trainer and the drum on

[2:55] it is actually curved you can see that

[2:58] right there it's got a curved drum now

[2:59] now you might ask yourself what's the

[3:01] point of a curved drum well it's like a

[3:05] belt sander um belt Sanders have a

[3:07] curved drum and when they rotate the

[3:11] curvature brings the belt to the center

[3:14] point of the drum same thing happens

[3:16] here your tire wants to climb to the

[3:18] highest point due to friction on that

[3:20] surface and so it wants to climb to the

[3:22] center of the drum and it took an old

[3:26] problem with bike trainers which is

[3:27] they're very hard to balance on and it

[3:29] made it easier right a better mouse trap

[3:32] and so that was uh the bike trainer that

[3:35] I had filed a patent on

[3:38] so we're going to use my actual patent

[3:41] in the US patent office so let's go to

[3:43] the the US patent office here and let's

[3:48] uh change the screen a bit so we just

[3:50] have that and so search Google patents

[3:54] now you might say why why don't I go

[3:56] directly to the US patent office and you

[3:59] could you can go to us

[4:02] PTO get to the US patent and trademark

[4:05] office and then you can go in here

[4:08] patents search for patents but the

[4:10] reality is is that the US patent office

[4:12] has given

[4:14] Google uh access to all of the patents

[4:18] out there and Google search algorithm is

[4:20] much easier than the US Patent uh search

[4:25] tools so again you can go in here and

[4:28] you can go into like basic search and

[4:30] you can enter things but it's far easier

[4:33] to go to Google patents and then type in

[4:38] bicycle roller

[4:41] trainer

[4:42] Crown okay so you'd put in your item

[4:46] that you think you might be interested

[4:47] in right and then this is the

[4:51] most basic way to search you go through

[4:55] and you start looking for things that

[4:57] look similar to what you might be

[5:00] interested in so

[5:03] okay

[5:05] um of course mine's up top here but

[5:07] let's let's find a little bit

[5:11] more let's go to the next

[5:22] page okay is this something okay so

[5:24] here's like a treadmill right so you go

[5:27] through and you're basically GNA fastest

[5:29] way to do is look at images look at

[5:31] images click through does it look like

[5:34] what I'm trying to patent nope this is a

[5:37] treadmill okay back to

[5:39] results and so then you go through again

[5:43] all right so now let's say that we end

[5:45] up on I'm going for the sake

[5:48] of things here bicycle roller trainer so

[5:52] now let's say we find something that

[5:53] looks similar all right actually

[5:56] accidentally clicked on mine

[5:58] again

[6:02] no here we go roller trainer subassembly

[6:06] here's one right now does this look

[6:08] similar to what we want to sell well

[6:11] kind of in a way it's got two two roller

[6:14] drums and this is totally sideways now

[6:17] but okay similar but not exact so first

[6:21] thing you can do is you could go to here

[6:24] classifications classifications are kind

[6:26] of like the um

[6:30] what file folder they're in right how

[6:31] they're classified training appliances

[6:34] or apparatuses for special sports for

[6:37] cycling I.E Arrangements on or for real

[6:40] bicycles wow that seems like it's a

[6:43] really great place to search right

[6:46] probably anything that you want is going

[6:48] to be in this classification so that's

[6:51] the number one way that you can get to

[6:53] good results when you're doing a patent

[6:55] search find something similar go to

[6:58] classifications so now here we're in

[7:01] classifications so you can leave this

[7:04] classification now and you can just hit

[7:07] search and now you're going to get

[7:10] 5,783 results this is how many patents

[7:12] are in that classification if the patent

[7:15] office did their job right they're going

[7:18] to be your any patent you're interested

[7:21] in is going to be in this classification

[7:23] now I'm only talking about us patents

[7:26] but some of these will be World patents

[7:28] and I'll explain some of those to you

[7:31] so let's let's look at a roller trainer

[7:33] in here there are a a surplus of

[7:38] them uh auxiliary supporting device

[7:41] here's a great one sure let's just take

[7:42] this

[7:45] so you have you have something you're

[7:48] looking at it oh okay first thing you

[7:51] want to look at if you think that yours

[7:54] would infringe on it if you found

[7:56] something that looks exactly like it

[7:58] come over here and you look at whether

[8:00] or not it's expired so this was patent

[8:04] was applied in

[8:06] 2006 and the US and

[8:08] Taiwan and then if you look at it they

[8:11] never paid their fees around

[8:14] 20 it was granted and then they must not

[8:18] have made any money on it expired fee

[8:20] related meaning you have freedom to

[8:23] operate on this particular patent now if

[8:29] you think this patent is very close to

[8:31] what you're looking at making but not

[8:34] exact then you want to know this you

[8:36] want to write

[8:37] down the patent number so you would um

[8:41] where is it basically Download a pdf and

[8:45] save this number into a

[8:47] spreadsheet and keep a folder of all the

[8:51] patents you find that are relevant this

[8:54] is what is called prior art you want to

[8:58] keep track of of all the patents that

[9:00] are relevant to what you are trying to

[9:03] patent because when they go to do the

[9:06] search in the patent office they're

[9:07] going to want to know all of

[9:09] that um don't if you find something

[9:12] close don't hide it you want to know all

[9:15] of that and then you also if you do

[9:17] later on talk to an attorney you can

[9:18] make them aware of like this already

[9:20] existed and so can we get any protection

[9:25] on something that's like this but

[9:27] slightly different the other thing and

[9:29] this is huge patents are not

[9:32] copyrightable you cannot copyright any

[9:35] of the text in a patent so if you're

[9:38] trying to write a patent you can

[9:40] literally copy paste

[9:43] into Microsoft Word and you can start

[9:46] editing and just changing what they had

[9:49] used to make it extremely similar for

[9:52] what you are trying to

[9:53] patent

[9:55] so that's that's huge right save

[9:58] yourself time time and money you don't

[10:00] need to have somebody draft up a patent

[10:02] for you if you have one that's already

[10:05] practically drafted for you so I could

[10:07] literally let's say let's say my my bike

[10:09] roller looked almost exactly like this

[10:11] but had a crowned wheel I could say the

[10:15] invention relates to a device Etc it

[10:18] looks like this but you know having a

[10:20] crowned wheel and then talk about why a

[10:22] crowned wheel is better and talk about

[10:24] how you know uh previous devices such as

[10:29] this one right here didn't have a crown

[10:32] and so it lacked like a certain amount

[10:33] of stability and so I basically saved

[10:36] myself days of trying to be unique in

[10:39] writing something and now have the

[10:41] perfect platform in which to show this

[10:45] is what's currently out there and this

[10:46] is how my product is better um patents

[10:49] are made up of a few different things so

[10:51] you have you have your diagrams right

[10:53] like uh I showed here on the right um

[10:56] anything that is in a claim should be in

[10:59] a

[11:00] diagram uh so here are the claims the

[11:04] only legal thing that matters is the

[11:07] claims in terms of what you are trying

[11:08] to say you have ownership of so here for

[11:12] example an auxiliary supporting device

[11:14] for a bicycle the supporting device

[11:15] compromising of a b and then um these

[11:22] items well so these are called inclusive

[11:26] claims which means that let's say your

[11:29] device does this but it does not do that

[11:33] well that's fine unless your item does

[11:36] both things you're not

[11:37] infringing right so um let's go to my

[11:43] patent now bicycle roller trainer here

[11:45] we go here's my name and if you look

[11:49] expired fated well turned out it was way

[11:51] too expensive to manufacture and my

[11:53] profit margins were too small we can get

[11:55] into that in terms of pricing strategy

[11:57] and manufacturability and another time

[12:00] but um great product customers loved it

[12:05] blew their mind they didn't think it was

[12:06] going to work

[12:08] unfortunately uh just something that was

[12:10] a very niche market didn't really sell

[12:13] great and had a very high scrap rate in

[12:17] manufacturing so so here's the product

[12:21] uh these drawings are all just made up

[12:25] in paint I guess we'll get into all of

[12:28] this when I talk about how to file a

[12:29] patent later on so let's ignore all that

[12:31] from now let's talk about again patent

[12:34] searching so we're

[12:36] searching uh claims bike roller trainer

[12:39] comprising of a plurality of rollers Etc

[12:42] so this is uh the first claim additional

[12:48] claims so very simple you look through

[12:52] uh backgrounds and there's like a

[12:54] summary of The Invention descriptions of

[12:57] the drawings where it goes over the

[12:58] figure of each of the items so um

[13:02] detailed description of the invention so

[13:04] there's there's some interesting things

[13:06] to note in the terms of how patents work

[13:08] so let's

[13:11] say I wanted to make a crowned bike

[13:14] trainer like this and somebody else had

[13:17] a patent for another roller trainer and

[13:21] in their patent for the claims never

[13:23] stated that the rollers could be crowned

[13:27] the drawings never show that the rollers

[13:29] could be

[13:30] crowned so they wouldn't have any legal

[13:34] recourse stating that

[13:38] they uh have a patent on a roller that

[13:41] has crowned drums correct so I make this

[13:45] they can't sue me they can't claim that

[13:47] I infringe their patent and a patent

[13:49] prevents you from being able to make

[13:51] sell transport Etc uh something that

[13:55] someone has the right to do so but let's

[13:58] say in their abstract or in their

[14:01] descriptions somewhere or summary of

[14:04] their invention they say just in the

[14:07] text the drums are round but the drums

[14:10] could also be convex or Cong in shape

[14:14] well now I lose all

[14:18] patentability even though it's not in

[14:20] their claims the fact that they had

[14:21] written in their abstract that it could

[14:24] be convex or could be

[14:26] concave that makes it now public

[14:29] knowledge and therefore destroys the

[14:32] patentability of it it used to be in the

[14:35] US that we were a first

[14:37] to uh invent system and this is where

[14:41] everybody said like oh if you invent

[14:43] something put it in envelope and date it

[14:45] and mail it to yourself and that way it

[14:48] gets postmarked and it proves that you

[14:49] invented it and this is also why for

[14:53] centuries everybody had lab notebooks

[14:54] and had people sign them as independent

[14:57] signers so that they had proof that they

[14:59] invented something well that all changed

[15:02] during the Oban Administration and now

[15:04] we are our first to invent system which

[15:06] is actually similar to what much the

[15:08] world has so if you have an idea and you

[15:13] want to patent it you could quickly go

[15:17] on and patent it on the US patent office

[15:19] file a patent and then uh protect it

[15:23] without even making the product uh

[15:26] there's almost patents for time machines

[15:29] basically on on the US patent office it

[15:31] used to be a to actually build tiny

[15:33] models or whatever you wanted to patent

[15:35] and the US patent office in Washington

[15:37] DC has all these tiny models on display

[15:39] and they're really cool tiny like you

[15:41] want to patent a gigantic steam ship you

[15:43] had to build a tiny model of it to uh

[15:46] have them be able to look at it

[15:49] so and anybody who is trained in the

[15:55] subject matter should be able to read

[15:57] your patent and then recreate it so if I

[16:01] read a patent on software and I'm not a

[16:04] software person I'm clearly not going to

[16:06] probably be able to recreate what

[16:08] they're trying to patent but if I read

[16:12] this patent on this bike roller trainer

[16:13] and I'm an engineer then I should be

[16:15] able to be able to make this bike roller

[16:16] trainer right so um so that's kind of

[16:20] the first few steps first find the

[16:23] similar items second look immediately at

[16:26] the dates and see whether or not they're

[16:28] expired

[16:29] you'll be surprised you might be able to

[16:30] find what you were looking for and it

[16:33] might have been patented 70 years ago in

[16:35] which case you're fine patents are only

[16:36] good for a limited number of years uh

[16:40] typically 20 uh you have to continue to

[16:44] pay every

[16:45] single four or so years of fees um in

[16:50] order to keep them going so that's

[16:52] another thing that you may not have

[16:54] anticipated and then uh so if it's not

[16:57] making money a lot of people just let

[16:58] them laps and then

[17:01] um if it's if you have a provisional

[17:04] patent it's not public so that's another

[17:06] good example there might be a

[17:08] provisional patent on something you are

[17:10] interested in

[17:11] patenting and uh or even marketing and

[17:14] selling and you wouldn't know it because

[17:18] it is not public provisional patents are

[17:19] not public and you would not be able to

[17:23] to see that uh until finally it goes to

[17:27] be an application for a regular patent

[17:30] this is utility patents of course and

[17:32] then that application becomes public

[17:35] once it gets viewed by the patent office

[17:37] for the first time so it goes from a

[17:39] one-year Mark and then finally it you

[17:41] file it to be a full patent and then the

[17:44] patent office eventually gets around to

[17:46] viewing it and then when they pull it

[17:48] out of the folder for the first time and

[17:50] look at it that's when it becomes public

[17:52] and so that that's caught some people

[17:55] off guard where you know they but that's

[17:58] an application then you just say oh well

[17:59] they have an application and I'll get

[18:01] into claims in a minute what claims you

[18:03] read on applications are not close to

[18:06] being what they'll be when they're

[18:07] finally

[18:08] granted uh applications are super Broad

[18:12] and they're meant to be so they can try

[18:13] and capture as much as they can in terms

[18:15] of ownership

[18:17] so back on patents I showed you here

[18:22] uh basically you

[18:27] know how to go through images and see

[18:30] whether or not something looks similar

[18:32] okay let's say this is similar cool I

[18:37] want to go and read the claims okay the

[18:41] claims all seem pretty similar but I now

[18:43] want to find other patents that are

[18:45] really close like this patent that I

[18:47] found let's say is the be's knees it

[18:51] is exactly close to what I'm trying to

[18:55] patent minus a couple things right right

[18:59] um so with that you would then go down

[19:02] to the bottom to where it says patent

[19:03] citations patent citations is basically

[19:06] everything I told you to collect for

[19:07] patents that have similar numbers keep

[19:09] in that folder and then submit to the

[19:11] patent office later on that's in patent

[19:14] citations this is where a lot of patents

[19:17] are listed that are similar to what you

[19:21] are trying to patent so here's an Us

[19:24] application on something that you mount

[19:28] a bike to and it rolls on the back right

[19:31] uh so we can go back to

[19:33] uhoh back here didn't seem like that was

[19:36] quite close so now we go to the next one

[19:39] oh this is really close Okay this has

[19:43] got two wheels and it's got or two drums

[19:47] and one in the front and a belt this

[19:48] looks really close okay so now you have

[19:51] something that you will then record and

[19:55] you will then go through and see whether

[19:57] or not it's it's expired oh 2034 it's

[20:01] not expired yet okay interesting right

[20:04] um then you will go and look is it in my

[20:08] country yes it's in my country is there

[20:10] foreign ones

[20:13] yes and then you'll go down and look at

[20:15] the claims and if it's again not exact

[20:21] um in wording then you can get around it

[20:23] so here's a good examp let's go through

[20:25] an example here a bicycle roller having

[20:28] a front and a back and comprising of a

[20:31] frame sure a rear roller mounted

[20:33] assembly for two rear rollers what if

[20:36] you had one rear roller in the back now

[20:40] it is fine a front roller mounting

[20:43] assembly for a front roller so again if

[20:45] you just had one roller in the front and

[20:47] one roller in the back you are now no

[20:49] longer violating this

[20:50] pattern could you technically do that

[20:53] could you find a way to feasibly do that

[20:55] that's how easy it is to get around

[20:57] patents uh Central Bridge Assembly

[21:00] connecting said front roller Mount to

[21:01] said rear roller Mount assembly okay so

[21:04] if you wanted to get rid of this middle

[21:06] section and just have two independent

[21:08] items that are not connected then you

[21:11] could have your two rear rollers in the

[21:13] back right and again you could get

[21:15] around this patent that's how easy it is

[21:19] to get around patents now you'd have to

[21:20] read the rest of these claims to ensure

[21:21] that there isn't something that said the

[21:25] bike roller trainer of claim one where

[21:28] there is no Central bridge and there

[21:30] might be something like that down here

[21:32] further on

[21:34] but that's where you start so you find

[21:38] another close one you go all the way to

[21:40] the bottom you basically start clicking

[21:43] on all of the other items and eventually

[21:46] you'll start to notice that okay I

[21:49] clicked on this one and I come back over

[21:51] and

[21:52] now um if I was in guest mode and it it

[21:55] kept an idea of what links I've clicked

[21:57] on eventually you'll clicked on all

[21:58] these links and they're all going to

[22:00] show up that they've been clicked on

[22:02] before and then you'll click on all of

[22:04] these links and they're going to show up

[22:06] that they've been clicked on before and

[22:09] then once you've exhausted every single

[22:12] Avenue of every single bike trainer that

[22:14] looks similar to yours then that's

[22:17] essentially your patent search you have

[22:19] now and this is what you get from a

[22:21] patent search company they're going to

[22:22] give you a list of patents that are

[22:26] related to your item and then they're

[22:30] going

[22:31] to basically they don't know with the

[22:36] item you're trying to invent they don't

[22:37] know whether or not you are going to be

[22:39] violating any of those claims because

[22:42] you can't just immediately tell them

[22:44] necessarily what your product's going to

[22:46] be because you may not know exactly what

[22:48] it's going to be right but let's just

[22:50] say it was for me uh a crowned bike

[22:53] roller trainer and they could in theory

[22:57] then as an ADD fee instead of just

[22:59] providing well here's all the bike

[23:00] roller trainers that mention Crown they

[23:02] could go through all the claims and then

[23:05] say here are the ones that talk about

[23:08] Crown rollers and these do not mention

[23:12] what you want to do and therefore you

[23:15] most likely will have freedom to operate

[23:18] and

[23:18] so that is the basics of a Utility

[23:23] Patent Search so now let's go

[23:26] to uh a design patent and you might ask

[23:32] what's what's a design patent well uh

[23:36] design patent is exactly that it is the

[23:38] design of something the Aesthetics of it

[23:42] its look and appearance cannot be

[23:45] anything having to do with the

[23:46] functionality of it

[23:49] it is basically defended by if you

[23:54] took people common people

[23:58] and you had them look at two of them

[24:02] your design patent and another person's

[24:04] design patent let's say you do Forks

[24:07] dinner Forks right take two dinner Forks

[24:10] put them up side by side can they tell

[24:13] the artistic difference between them or

[24:16] do they look the same according to the

[24:19] common person so if they look the same

[24:22] artistically then you are in violation

[24:24] of a design patent and you might say

[24:26] okay that's neat but I'm not going to be

[24:27] artist well wrong design patents are the

[24:30] cheapest and possibly strongest patents

[24:33] you can get if you have something to

[24:34] protect case in point here is a great

[24:38] example from Adafruit and her blog

[24:43] and here is the Apple versus Samsung

[24:47] phone patent infringement case on the

[24:51] left you've got Apple's design patents

[24:54] on the right you've got Samsung's Des

[24:57] design patents or the products they made

[25:00] they may or may not have had a design

[25:02] patent and to the common user does this

[25:06] on the left look like this on the right

[25:09] you could argue that maybe the buttons

[25:11] on the bottom don't match for the phone

[25:13] but that tablet on the bottom looks

[25:16] pretty dang similar and

[25:19] so here apple with an incredibly complex

[25:24] highly patentable device for its

[25:26] technology its strongest and most

[25:29] valuable

[25:30] patents are design

[25:33] patents they got massive massive payouts

[25:38] because somebody infringed on the look

[25:41] of what they had which to be fair

[25:43] Apple's all about looking cool

[25:45] right and functioning well but looking

[25:48] cool is a big part of it right it's

[25:49] sleek and shiny and people like that so

[25:51] they're protecting their brand but what

[25:55] people don't realize is design patent

[25:58] are cheap cheap cheap cheap and they're

[26:02] also hard to search for unfortunately

[26:04] so really design patents are best

[26:07] searched by doing uh image searches on

[26:10] Google or doing uh word searches on

[26:14] Google for the product itself uh and

[26:17] then also you can do some searches and

[26:22] specify design patents only so this is

[26:25] banana slicer on here

[26:28] but if you

[26:29] look it's just aesthetic images like you

[26:33] see here and

[26:36] then

[26:39] descriptions basically of a perspective

[26:42] view of the Sider showing they shouldn't

[26:44] say our new design that's pretty bad

[26:46] actually uh showing the left side and

[26:48] the right side are identical and the top

[26:50] and the bottom but all the claims are

[26:54] always an ornamental design for the

[26:57] product as shown and described basically

[26:59] you get no other claims on

[27:02] that and this is why they're so powerful

[27:05] because you cannot refute the fact that

[27:09] it looks like your product and this is

[27:12] why uh so many people who get CopyCats

[27:15] in other countries like China

[27:17] manufacturing the same exact product

[27:19] that they are selling already if you

[27:22] have a cheap design patent you

[27:25] can stop them from selling their product

[27:27] you can stop them from importing their

[27:29] product you can tell Amazon to ban their

[27:32] product or ban that seller you show them

[27:35] your design patent and you say here is

[27:37] my design patent and their product is

[27:41] the exact copy and so stop them from

[27:44] selling it best scenario you contact

[27:47] them and state you are in uh you know

[27:51] violation of my design patent and my

[27:54] royalty rate is 6% here's my fee

[27:58] schedule I would like a check from you

[28:00] every single month or I will prevent you

[28:02] from selling your product on Amazon now

[28:05] if your product is you know if you're

[28:07] losing face on your product because it's

[28:09] selling on Amazon alongside copycats

[28:12] then maybe you'll try and stop them but

[28:14] if they're selling a ton of

[28:17] them on top of you know and they're a

[28:19] different price point it might make

[28:22] sense to let them keep selling them and

[28:24] just harness all the copycats and just

[28:27] get mailbox money cuz mailbox money is

[28:29] the best money you don't have to do

[28:31] anything you could literally stop

[28:32] selling your product and possibly even

[28:35] make more money than you were making

[28:37] before because they'll just keep selling

[28:40] it now if you stop Defending Your patent

[28:44] that's something that can be a problem

[28:46] legally if you don't defend it for a

[28:49] number of years you are

[28:52] knowingly uh not defending it but you

[28:54] know that they're in violation then you

[28:57] could Theory lose your protection

[28:59] but there's a whole bunch of strategy

[29:02] there in terms of

[29:03] if you find somebody infringing on your

[29:06] patent do you try and stop them or do

[29:08] you try and harness the momentum they

[29:11] already have because they might be much

[29:13] better marketers than you they might

[29:15] have the resources to push that product

[29:17] far better than you are plus if it's a

[29:20] new product in the market they might be

[29:22] legitimizing it to a bunch of people and

[29:24] then there's two tiers there's the

[29:26] premium brand and and there is your

[29:29] brand and so your premium brand might

[29:34] dictate your higher price and then that

[29:36] other one just fills in the rest of the

[29:38] gaps which might be fine so uh we're not

[29:42] going to talk about how to file a patent

[29:44] today uh but we are going to talk just

[29:47] in general about how much they cost to

[29:49] file real fast just so you have a

[29:50] general idea here we'll also go into uh

[29:54] Trade Secrets actually

[29:56] so how much does it cost to file a

[29:58] patent well if you do it yourself and

[30:00] you're a Micro Entity there's all these

[30:02] different tiers so there's the little

[30:04] guy and then there is the big company

[30:07] and then there

[30:09] is massive companies the patent office

[30:12] is great they tier pricing based on that

[30:15] so if you're an independent inventor and

[30:18] you just want to file your first patent

[30:20] design patents are cheap like $300 you

[30:22] know the fees change over time but

[30:24] roughly around there uh provisional

[30:26] patents for your Utility Patent which

[30:28] gives you that one-ear window of safety

[30:31] those are less than 100 I think the last

[30:34] one I did was 85 but that was a few

[30:35] years ago and then when you go to file

[30:39] your Utility Patent your Utility Patent

[30:42] you're actually application uh and

[30:44] there's strategies on how much you pay

[30:46] and when your

[30:49] application to when you actually get

[30:51] granted and have to pay for your

[30:55] um registration and like getting the

[30:57] forms and all done and getting your

[31:00] certificate less than $2,000 for your

[31:02] patent all in

[31:06] if you hire a patent attorney to do it

[31:10] all for you you're looking at about 20

[31:13] grand if you are going to have somebody

[31:15] file your design patent for you there's

[31:17] lots of services online that literally

[31:19] are doing just paperwork pushing filling

[31:22] out the same info that you write to them

[31:24] they're putting into the US patent

[31:26] office

[31:28] they are probably going to charge you

[31:29] 600 bucks

[31:31] $1,000 so don't waste money on patent

[31:35] searches don't waste money having other

[31:39] people write your patents up for you

[31:42] especially uh you know I'll get into how

[31:45] simple utility provisional patents are

[31:47] they're very simple they're very so much

[31:50] meant to be Broad and so you don't have

[31:53] to have a ton of wording in there and

[31:56] then uh if you what I like to do is you

[31:59] write you take all the knowledge I just

[32:02] gave you guys and then you write up your

[32:05] own draft of your patent and your own

[32:09] draft of your claims and then you go to

[32:12] a patent attorney and then this way they

[32:14] don't spend 10 billable hours or 20

[32:17] billable hours writing your patent for

[32:19] you they go through and they make sure

[32:21] the claims are solid and that your

[32:24] drawings have all the information they

[32:26] need in them or your sketches and then

[32:31] they file it which is they know how to

[32:33] file it quick it's not going to cost

[32:35] them much more to file it than it will

[32:37] cost uh you to file it so you're

[32:40] probably looking at maybe 3,000 for your

[32:42] filing plus maybe another 1 or 2,000 for

[32:46] them to look through it but it's much

[32:47] better to have 5 or 6,000 versus 20,000

[32:50] and it's not that different than 3,000

[32:52] and you get a lot more uh I guess legal

[32:56] e and checking in

[32:58] your patent filing then you would

[33:00] otherwise get writing it yourself so

[33:03] let's see here before I do anything else

[33:05] let me look through my list

[33:08] here uh trademark search I can get into

[33:12] that quick but we'll go more into that

[33:14] later uh so trademark searches so you go

[33:17] to us

[33:20] PTO trademark search it's actually

[33:23] called

[33:25] test so let's say you're trying to start

[33:27] a cookie company and you don't actually

[33:30] want to patent anything you're going to

[33:32] keep your this is another thing if you

[33:33] don't want to patent something you can

[33:35] keep it as a trade secret Coca-Cola's

[33:37] formula isn't patented it's a trade

[33:40] secret and so you save a bunch of money

[33:44] just by keeping things up here and not

[33:46] telling anybody them so uh but they need

[33:50] a logo right so you do a trademark

[33:52] search and so you come to the USPTO and

[33:55] you make sure that you don't accident ly

[33:57] click on any sort of other websites that

[33:59] look like it like um trademark register

[34:04] FAQ right you don't want to get scammed

[34:06] so make sure it's the uspto.gov and just

[34:10] click trademark

[34:11] search and then you can go in here and

[34:14] you can type in

[34:17] Chuck bucket and you can see what shows

[34:20] up and then so live means that it is

[34:26] still

[34:28] alive and legally binding not cancelled

[34:30] they paid their fees and all that dead

[34:32] means that there used to be somebody who

[34:34] had that trademark and they no longer do

[34:37] and

[34:39] so um you can have a word Mark which is

[34:43] literally just the

[34:45] text or you can have

[34:50] um oh basically the image we'll call it

[34:56] so so the word Mark is the text in it so

[35:01] Chuck Wagon

[35:03] Delicatessen and carry out so those

[35:05] words in that order and then you have

[35:08] what it is so goods and services that

[35:10] they are applied to it so let's say

[35:14] Snickers I actually wrote a social media

[35:16] app called snicker snicker and Snickers

[35:20] sound the same right Snickers is a candy

[35:22] bar Snicker was a social media app that

[35:25] allowed you to share photos with friends

[35:28] that you had cropped down to a tiny area

[35:31] that made it look like it was I don't

[35:34] know weird

[35:36] or uh maybe it was dirty and it wasn't

[35:39] or maybe you

[35:40] know you took a a photo and there's a

[35:43] house on fire and there's like a little

[35:46] kid with a scared face in the corner and

[35:48] you crop it down to the kid and then you

[35:50] send that to their friend and they'd see

[35:51] it and they click on the kid's face and

[35:53] then it would expand and show you the

[35:54] whole thing it was supposed to be kind

[35:55] of like a surprise photo thing um either

[35:59] way eventually Reddit implemented

[36:00] something similar to that but so I had

[36:05] Snicker uh the social media app it's not

[36:07] a candy bar you're totally free to have

[36:09] the same trademark what you can't have

[36:12] is Snicker the candy bar company right

[36:17] or I guess it's Mars or whoever makes

[36:18] Snickers but Snicker the candy bar and

[36:22] then Snicker the gum might be pretty

[36:25] similar they're both Foods You could

[36:27] argue one's chocolate and one is uh you

[36:32] know I don't know what you call gum

[36:34] sugar but they're they're arguably both

[36:38] sweets and therefore you could have a

[36:40] patent infringement suit um and so a lot

[36:46] of times what you can do is if companies

[36:48] that have you know money they might have

[36:51] okay Snicker the

[36:55] um I don't know cat dating website I

[36:57] think there was something like that and

[37:00] you reach out to Snicker the candy bar

[37:02] company with a lawyer and say hey I

[37:06] would like to just get a letter from

[37:08] your attorney stating that we have no

[37:11] conflict of trademark and then you just

[37:13] get that upfront and usually it won't

[37:16] cost you anything for them or lawyer to

[37:18] send it to you because um they pay their

[37:20] lawyer and you just you know get it in

[37:23] return so you can do that if you're

[37:26] worried about possible conflicts you can

[37:28] reach out to the company to their lawyer

[37:30] and get something in writing that states

[37:32] that there is no conflict of trademark

[37:35] perceived

[37:37] um and so that's that's basically

[37:40] trademark searching there's not a whole

[37:42] lot to it we'll get into how to file one

[37:44] another time just like we'll get into

[37:46] how to file a patent another time

[37:51] but uh oh big thing I wanted to bring up

[37:54] was um

[37:57] making things public before you try and

[37:59] patent them that is a big no no within

[38:03] reason

[38:06] so if you let's say invent a new bike

[38:11] roller

[38:12] trainer and you think it's great right

[38:17] if you haven't shown it on Instagram yet

[38:20] if you haven't tried to sell it and sold

[38:22] it to anybody yet you can still file a

[38:26] visional patent as long as it's not

[38:28] public and you can and no one can prove

[38:32] that it was public and then you can get

[38:35] one year

[38:36] of uh basically under the radar R&D work

[38:42] where you can Tinker on it and change

[38:43] things and reach out to customers and

[38:46] sell sell sell try and sell as many as

[38:48] you can you should have your product

[38:50] ready to sell soon as you get that you

[38:52] you know provisional Patent filed if you

[38:54] can because you get one one year as

[38:57] cheap as possible to sell your product

[39:01] before you have to file a regular patent

[39:03] application and pay a lot more

[39:05] money and

[39:08] so if you can do that awesome but now

[39:15] it's public so now you have it starts a

[39:18] clock you have one year from that public

[39:21] display to file your patent to

[39:25] file your patent in the US and still be

[39:28] able to get coverage so if it explodes

[39:32] and it takes off you better make sure

[39:35] that you hit that filing date and if it

[39:39] explodes and takes off you probably want

[39:41] toer to help you write it quicker and

[39:43] get it filed faster because they're also

[39:45] going to keep track of the dates and be

[39:48] liable if they miss a filing

[39:50] date and uh so with

[39:54] that that's that's kind of the important

[39:57] of don't make your item public if you

[40:01] plan on getting a patent don't make it

[40:03] public and then get around to filing a

[40:05] patent more than a year later I in fact

[40:08] actually uh won't say what but I was

[40:11] able to completely get around someone's

[40:13] patent

[40:14] because they reached out to me said I

[40:17] violated their patent I found prior

[40:20] knowledge on websites of the item that

[40:23] they patented four years prior to them

[40:25] patenting it

[40:26] and then basically said

[40:29] hey uh you know I had a lawyer write up

[40:31] a nice letter to them in response to

[40:33] their lawyer's letter that stated hey

[40:37] your product was public knowledge prior

[40:40] to you filing Therefore your patent is

[40:42] invalid and in fact it was illegal for

[40:45] you to even file that if you had prior

[40:47] knowledge and you're going to drop

[40:50] everything and leave us alone and

[40:52] basically what choice do they have right

[40:55] if they they you know want to keep their

[40:58] patent they keep their mouth shut and if

[41:00] they don't then you know they are going

[41:05] to invalidate their patent and then they

[41:08] lose that and then they lose their

[41:09] protection from anyone else who didn't

[41:10] know like I did so um that's that's the

[41:14] important of making sure that you file

[41:16] on time if you do want to indeed file a

[41:20] patent on what you're trying to protect

[41:22] another thing to note is that uh in the

[41:25] US

[41:27] when when it becomes public you also

[41:29] have a clock starting in Europe on when

[41:32] you can file so that is something that

[41:34] you need to pay attention to as well and

[41:36] I'm not going to get into how long that

[41:37] is because it depends on every single

[41:39] country and it's different but you can

[41:43] um basically go reach out to an attorney

[41:45] and say okay if I made this public and I

[41:47] want to still file in

[41:49] Japan would I have to do it within the

[41:51] first year would I have to do it right

[41:52] away do I get two years would my current

[41:55] US patent have an agreement with them

[41:57] where it gives me Priority or not and so

[42:01] you can work that out with with that

[42:03] attorney and figure all those things out

[42:05] you may find also it it might not be

[42:07] worth it to patent in a foreign country

[42:09] because it's a lot of work to defend all

[42:12] patents are most patents are

[42:15] useless they're they're useless because

[42:17] people get excited about ideas they put

[42:20] all their money and time into it and

[42:22] they fail to look beyond what they

[42:25] envision to what people actually want

[42:28] and you'll see this all the time people

[42:31] will show you their invention and they

[42:32] think it's great and you're like well

[42:34] maybe it should be a little bit bigger

[42:36] because I'm having a hard time holding

[42:38] this and they'll dismiss that and say oh

[42:40] you don't know what you're talking about

[42:41] like you just hold it like this and the

[42:43] reality is is that yeah the inventor

[42:45] knows how to hold it a certain way but

[42:46] most people want that handle a little

[42:48] bigger

[42:50] and so it's it's important to listen to

[42:55] people which is why you want to get a

[42:56] lot of feedback from people during your

[42:58] prototyping phase and not

[43:02] patent a premature design that you then

[43:05] have to go back and then patent a new

[43:09] design that's updated and you just

[43:11] wasted all that time and money on the

[43:12] previous one so all right that's all

[43:16] I've got for this episode I want to

[43:19] thank all you guys I think that this has

[43:21] been really good I want you to like And

[43:24] subscribe sorry this was a bit lengthy

[43:26] but I just saved you $4,000 on a patent

[43:29] search by letting you do it yourself you

[43:31] have a substantial larger amount of

[43:33] knowledge and the world's a little bit

[43:36] smaller so take care and I'll see you

[43:39] guys next

[43:40] episode